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Stephen Cass: Good day and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some massive issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply wish to inform you that you would be able to get the most recent protection from a few of Spectrum’s most essential beats, together with AI, climate change, and robotics, by signing up for one among our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is turning into an more and more essential matter around the globe, and as we speak we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, concerning the European Union’s Sustronics program aimed toward this very matter. I’d wish to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I mentioned, sustainable electronics is turning into an even bigger and larger matter, however it appears to be a type of issues that folks speak about it greater than really doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics mission going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics mission is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 totally different European nations. And our principal matter is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one facet however taking into consideration totally different alternatives that may come up from number of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that may very well be used. And VTT’s position is, initially, to be the technical supervisor of the mission to make sure that the totally different companions work collectively and the totally different actions are interacting with one another in an effort to have a joint effort. However on high of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the mission.
Cass: Is it a case that you simply search for business companions who then are available and work with you? They appear round. They assume you’re match inside the program. Or are you actively looking for individuals and going, “Oh, we predict now we have some expertise that may assist you to out right here”?
Hakola: Nicely, principally, I feel they’re each methods. In fact, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the business, massive enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and now we have been already agreeing in the course of the proposal part that VTT may supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that would assist with lowering their environmental footprint.
Cass: I suppose the query is, why would anyone be a part of this system, particularly when you’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I feel it’s a fantastic concept, however we frequently hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the motivation, in case you are someone who’s making electronics, to turn into one among these companions?
Hakola: Nicely, initially, within the EU, now we have this Green Deal. So the rules and the laws is growing right into a path the place the entire firms within the EU need to bear in mind the sustainability points of the merchandise they’re growing and promoting. So in an effort to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU aspect, the businesses have to develop new methods to take care of or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to form of applied sciences which have been in improvement in these, after which they’ll attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that approach to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re based mostly in New York, in america, the place it’s fairly a distinct regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability rules? What occurs when you don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some individuals simply pondering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a high quality. It’s only a price of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Nicely, after all, EU is growing the rules on a regular basis, so there would possibly come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that will give details about the environmental impression of the product. And that form of data could be out there even for shoppers. So really, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they might begin deciding on the merchandise which are environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly robust approach to make firms work in the direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if shoppers begin deciding on the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit earlier about your complete form of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a number of the greatest obstacles that at present exist in the direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Nicely, there are a few issues which are fairly dominant. So initially, the uncooked supplies which are used for making digital merchandise, they’re largely fossil-based, like totally different metals which are wanted for making conductive constructions. And likewise, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often based mostly on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which are crucial or uncommon or fairly beneficial. So it’s fairly a problem to seek out supplies that would substitute the present supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we really discover some sustainable options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which are used for making circuit boards, for instance, they devour numerous power and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, isn’t superb for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very power or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a approach that plenty of materials is wasted and processed a number of occasions. And naturally, the entire electronics business is sort of advanced and fragmented business. There are plenty of layers, and it’s actually troublesome to get all of them to work collectively and form of transparently switch information and knowledge between the totally different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and possibly that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and discuss somewhat concerning the work that you simply’ve finished in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has centered rather a lot on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which are bio-based or renewable supplies. And effectively, in Finland, the forest business has sometimes been fairly robust. So after all, now we have studied how one can use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally plenty of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– principally, they feel and look like plastics, however they’re from bio-based assets, so they’re form of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You mentioned compostable there. I’m somewhat anxious as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic baggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so once you say that, I’m somewhat involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived form of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very brief life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing expertise, so then after all we’re capable of manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However when you produce plenty of electronics that’s for single-use objective, then really you might be creating plenty of new digital waste. So you must someway deal with this challenge with having single-use electronics, however then with the ability to someway recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there’s, for instance, some diagnostic gadget the place you measure one thing, then in all probability there could be a single-use half on that gadget that would then in all probability be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after doing a little diagnostic measurements, you alter just one piece of the gadget, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it can be that the recycling course of is established, and it will be simply recyclable. However in that form of instances, you would possibly take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak somewhat bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very troublesome to waste. We have now to separate out our digital waste and now we have to place it someplace else. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I generally take into consideration when all these items is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Nicely, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— initially, it’s essential set up the recycling course of, and there must be totally different assortment bins the place individuals may dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Truly, in my residence the place I stay, there are one thing like seven totally different recycling bins the place I put the totally different sort of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that massive of a problem. However when you assume recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets really need to be designed in a approach that they’re higher for recycling. So we speak about round design, for instance. Already within the design part of the merchandise, you really take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a approach that it’s, for instance, modular, so you’ll be able to disintegrate the totally different elements simply and get better the supplies. So really, every little thing begins within the design part.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that generally it’s simpler for me to repair something that is 40 years old. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the lifeless. However a product I purchase as we speak, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I usually need to ship away for a particular package. Is a part of this design course of additionally these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design part. Design the gadgets in a approach that components will be changed afterward, and folks don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics firms, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they’ll discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There may very well be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit about manufacturing processes and making these somewhat bit extra sustainable. Are you able to broaden on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been growing for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it signifies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing expertise for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive technique. So we really add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away afterward after which attempt to determine what to do with that form of materials. In order that’s a chance for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but additionally power consumption. We have now carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less power throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there’s really already a chance there. However moreover this power challenge, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already appropriate with the printing expertise. It’s really fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly simple as a result of you understand that you would be able to print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a form of simpler process.
Cass: So are you able to discuss somewhat bit about a number of the form of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you consider the Sustronics program– so there are literally plenty of improvement for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the aim is to develop the form of gadgets that folks can really even use at residence to measure one thing from their saliva, or they’ll monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable gadget on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re growing are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you’ll be able to monitor how you might be doing if you end up exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart fee, after which the app would– the app you’ll have in your cell phone would then inform you based mostly on the measurement information that, okay, you probably did effectively as we speak or one thing else.
And one utility space that VTT has been growing rather a lot gadgets already within the earlier analysis applications are these options for clever packaging. So if we discuss concerning the packaging business, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to ensure that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise are usually not spoiling. So VTT has been growing electronics for that, like sensors connected to packages, digital sensors that may transmit data to cell phone. But when you consider the packaging business, the packages are recyclable. So then really we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those form of sensible tags, how we may name them, could be a extremely essential facet to contemplate. And there, these new form of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a extremely essential position.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you assume it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that buyers can form of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Nicely, really, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. In fact, not in actually enormous volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s bought out there. However after all, we will’t print a cell phone with these form of applied sciences, a minimum of not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it would take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say in the course of the subsequent decade, there would definitely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers positioned? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we will see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain by way of these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Nicely, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they aren’t actually massive firms but. They’re nonetheless on the early part, and they’re positioned all around the globe. In all probability fairly a lot of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, now we have been investigating printed electronics rather a lot. However yeah, there is no such thing as a challenge why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we predict, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we really need to– the EU needs to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to form of preserve the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I feel within the EU, there could be in all probability fairly robust assist sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or a minimum of establishing new manufacturing models to Europe.
Cass: So when you may wave a magic wand and clear up one drawback proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Nicely, in all probability I’d make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets not too long ago, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there is no such thing as a restore choice. So I’ve been pressured to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not needed to take action. So in all probability I’d change the enterprise a bit that the restore would all the time be an choice until you may have one thing that’s like 50 years outdated. Maybe that will be a problem. However even for a 5-year-old gadget, it will be good to have a restore choice. So I suppose I’d develop the form of design for the electronics that they actually will be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to discuss somewhat bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you mentioned it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose business. So are you able to discuss somewhat bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper form of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has a protracted historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics tasks that have been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the position of the paper firms in Finland was actually robust. So really, a minimum of in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving numerous these forest business firms. And that’s how we additionally at VTT bought concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you consider the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite options like biopolymers. So I suppose within the early stage, the paper business was really searching for new enterprise alternatives. They usually thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being finished on a regular basis. In order that’s how I feel the factor began, a minimum of in Finland.
Cass: So this can be a fascinating matter, which we may speak about all day, however I’m afraid now we have to depart it there. Right this moment we have been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be a part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.
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